ADHD help?

[mykdsmomy]

I'm back :o This time it's a question about my ds7. He is legally blind and recently has been showing increasing symptoms of ADD. He has an extremely hard time staying on task and paying attention. He also tends to be a follower instead of a leader. If ds4 is acting out, ds7 tends to laugh or follow along. They are constantly reacting to each other.
I put ds7 (he'll be 8 on Sat) in school for the first time this year. So far he has done exceptionally well. He really has adjusted far better than I expected...HOWEVER, he has had more behavioral problems at school and at home than I expected. (he was already having in increase in attention deficit prior to starting school). I'm making some charts for him to help his morning routine go more smoothly. He is so easily distracted that it's really challenging to keep him on track.
Does anyone have any resources for add as it pertains to love based parenting? Also any templates for routine charts? Thanks everyone :)

[greenbeanbanshee]

I'm not stalking you! I promise! But yes, it's me again. :D

I about fell out of my chair when you mentioned charts. I am the queen of a good chart. I LOVE to chart. I'm not kidding. I get out my clipboard and my ruler and my colored pencils. That's not even a joke. I love it. I love to chart my grocery lists, when I pack for vacations, household chores, my homeschool agenda, etc. There is a huge sense of satisfaction for me at being able to look at the chart and know exactly where I'm going and what I need to do and how far I've come. I feel so good about myself suddenly! Even better if I can actually stick to it and complete it! Wow. Really. There's not much more in my life that excites me in quite the same way as a good color-coded chart. (And yes, I have issues :dizzy)

However, what I now know about sticker charts and other reward systems like this is that instead of decreasing the stress, they actually increase it. There is a higher sense of pressure for the children, also to some extent the parents as well. Because now both people literally have a sign on the wall that tells them exactly what they need to do to please their parents/themselves/the family/school system. It's a lot of pressure. And to a kid who can't put his clothes on or brush his teeth already, it's almost impossible to then complete a chart.

Could you imagine if your husband hung something like that up on the wall for you? At first you'd think he was kidding, but when you finally figured out he was serious, you'd probably get really nervous and start to wonder why he needs you to do all the specific tasks in order to be happy with you. You might wonder, "Can't he just love me for who I am? Is he going to punish me if I don't get it right?" Geeez. Talk about pressure. I know it's slightly different between parent and child, but basically it's the same. Again, we have to stop looking at the specific behaviors and try to look past them at the larger picture: the relationship.

It can take a while to really start understanding how to do that. But basically, since the principle in BCLC is to reduce stress, we have to come up with ways to reduce the pressure and the stress, and maybe even the expectations that go along with that.

This was a hard thing for me to understand when I first started BCLC, because I really, really wanted to keep my charts. They seemed so harmless and simple and encouraging. But when I finally realized they added pressure, I had to rethink my game plan. There were a lot of other things like this that I did too. You might not be as stuck on them as I was (am), so don't think I'm trying to pry you away from them like I needed to be. It's just that the idea behind why sticker charts don't work is the same reason why grounding and timeouts don't work too, which you already agreed don't work. It's about our expectations and how stress effects the relationship. So are you up for other possibilities?

~Bethany

[Rebecca]

This model looks a bit differently at ADHD than most traditional paradigms. Rather than just looking at the child as being unable to focus and adding external tools to help the child (charts, medications, etc- though sometimes they might have a place in the short-term treatment plan), we would look at the child's ability to calm his nervous system.

It sounds like he has had some added stressors after his behavior was already starting to become less organized or more dysregulated. He was close to his "window of stress tolerance" and then school, with all of the challenges that are part of that environment, probably exceeded his ability to cope with his own stress. Children communicate through their behaviors and your son is telling you that this is too much for him right now.

Does that mean you have to pull him out of school? Not necessarily. But paying careful attention to his ability to calm himself and helping him to learn how to calm himself down is essential. It is a life skill and will be well worth your time and effort. Start paying attention to his behaviors and watch for early signs that he is becoming overwhelmed or stressed out and respond to him at that time. When you notice that he is showing signs of stress, go over to him and help him become aware of his body sensations. Breathe with him, perhaps even hold him if he'll let you. This helps him learn to calm his own system down. It also requires that you are completely calm yourself. It is overly simplified here, but it gives you an idea of how we might respond to his dysregulation (that looks like ADHD) with love.

Rather than an external chart, you could literally have him connect with you in between each task. He may not be ready to handle more than one task in a row right now.

Hope that helps...

[mykdsmomy]

Again, thank you both so much for the input :) I was looking at the chart as a way of reducing stress for both of us ....I didnt see it as an added stressor.

One of the reasons I put ds in school was to give him a break from ds4. The two of them together are a recipe for disaster as they tend to react off each other. Here's an example:

Ds7 gets home from school and ds4 says "William, play lego starwars with me" to which ds 7 says "not right now, I dont feel like it" to which ds4 begins screaming and says "dont make me hit you" to ds7, to which ds7 begins to run and hide behind me while ds4 picks up closest object to throw at him. I then ask William if he would mind playing lego star wars for a few minutes.....then ds7 gets angry with me and yells that he doesnt want to and then I lose my patience and say "just please play with your brother" because by this time ds4 is screaming and becoming violent with all of us. Please help me to diffuse this scenario and concentrate more on the relationship and less on the behavior? I'm sorry that this got off track, this is just typical of how everyone in our home becomes dysregulated quickly. (I know I'll get better at this and I'm sorry for focusing on the negative..)

[greenbeanbanshee]

Oh my goodness....do you have my house wire-tapped? :eek:

Sounds like ds4 is afraid that maybe ds7 will be more important to you? I don't know. Not a jealous thing, but a subconscious drive for domination in order to gain your closeness. It's not "naughty". He needs that. Especially at 4. Lots of reassurance to him that he is important to you and that he is important to ds7 too.

It also sounds like ds7 needs time to cool off from the days stresses, which means he can't be at ds4's beckon call. He needs some down time, quiet time maybe. You could help him get this by maybe sitting down (right away) and reading to both of them, one on either side of you, when ds7 comes home from school. Or, you could take the burdon off of ds7 by you, yourself, playing legos with ds4 for a few minutes. You could literally say to ds4, "William had a stressful day and I bet he will come play with you in a little bit. Can mama play Legos with you for a few minutes while William rests? I bet he missed you a lot today. Now, which one of these guys is Luke Skywalker?...."

Oh, and don't be sorry. This is a very real situation that I bet tons of parents are dealing with this very afternoon in their own homes. So, it's actually a great example to share. I promise.

~Bethany

[mykdsmomy]

Oh my goodness....do you have my house wire-tapped? :eek:


:lol

I really like the idea of diffusing the situation before it even starts. I will definitely try your suggestions today :)

One more thing if you dont mind? Last night as I was trying to get ds4 (noah) to sleep.....he was jumping on my bed, hitting me, jumping on me, etc. I told him that hurt mommy and he kept doing it and laughing. I tried to offer him a story, etc and he screamed at me. I wound up raising my voice to him and then apologizing for yelling. When I try to talk to him or apologize, he looks away and screams. He doesnt want to hear my apologies or suggestions for alternatives. I dont like the fact that he hits me and punches me and I just have to "take it". Is there a suggestion for diffusing the violence even when offering him alternatives doesnt work? (I hope that makes sense...I'm typing fast so I can get back to him :) ) (thank you so much.....seriously a lifesaver!!!!!)

[greenbeanbanshee]

Well, sometimes people start talking and if they feel like nobody hears them then they slowly start raising their voice, until eventually, they feel completely unheard and end up yelling! This is a fear response to an overwhelming situation. So, what you did last night in reaction to your son hitting you is a perfect example of this. And in his own way, this is what your son's hitting you was about too. He had something to express, but knew no other way at that moment to say it.

Was he just really tired? Was there something else that happened that day? Is he getting sick? Sometimes our kids' little stress radars are way too sensitive and they pick up on very, very tiny things in their environments. Things you and I would not even notice.

If this was my son, I would have tried to meet him at his emotional level. Like if he's really mad, get sort of mad too, and then help him come back down. Share that feeling with him if you can. Are you familiar with Bryan Post's book For All Things a Season? It's an ebook, so you can read it online or print it out if you want. It has a whole section in there about how to do this with your kid. Actually anybody. He calls it Reflect, Relate, Regulate. And it can help while the kid is tantruming or hitting or whatever. It helps you to really hear him, so that he doesn't need to throw something at you anymore. Which, let's face it, is way better. ;) Because you're right. You do not have to just "take it" when someone is hurting you. That is as unhealthy of a message for you as it is for him.

[Rebecca]

I did mean to address the sibling issue. (I'm listening to my children start to go at it again for the 30th time today, so I'm totally right there with you in this moment...) Good points, Bethany.

I do understand the dynamics on a very personal level. My boys, 9 and 4, are home together all day, so I certainly understand when you say you've put the older one in school to give him a break from his sibling. There have been times I've been tempted to put my older son in school for the same reasons. So I do get that.

Stay in nice and close physically to both of the boys at that transition time. Staying calm yourself is key. Individually, give both your boys help learning how to navigate when DS7 comes home from school. Work with DS4 before big brother comes through the door and talk about how you know how excited he is to see his big brother and all he wants to do is to play with him. Validate how hard it is that DS7 doesn't want to play in that moment and role play some alternative ways he could express his disappointment. It is difficult for a 4 year old to understand that his brother can't play right now and he needs to wait. Model what this looks like with him at other times. And validate. Help him learn to calm his system.

This is also a learning opportunity for DS7 to learn to set boundaries and you can support him with this. Help him use his words and express that he needs a little time by himself. He has a right to that and may need to hear that from you, as well.

Sibling issues can be intense. What does this situation bring up for you from your own past?

Focus on regulating yourself first, then work to get DS4 as regulated as possible before DS7 comes home. I know it is hard. HTH,

[mykdsmomy]

Sibling issues can be intense. What does this situation bring up for you from your own past?
,

Thanks Rebecca :) Everything you said makes total sense. The one thing that will definitely be a challenge for us is role playing. Noah doesnt like talking about his feelings. He will actually scream in my face when I say things like "I see that you're angry" etc. I think I can help get him to a place where he feels safe communicating if he feels that I'm truly listening.....I dont know....it's hard because he pushes me away when he feels I'm invading his "space".
As far as my own past and sibling issues, I was the youngest so I didnt really deal with sibling issues (that I remember). My biggest issue was my mother. She has always been depressed (possibly bipolar). She is also OCD (which I am as well). She yelled, screamed, threatened and spanked constantly....so I really tend to get worked up when my kids "misbehave". I fight the urge to spank and yell but usually wind up yelling out of frustration....:( (i'm working on that)


Are you familiar with Bryan Post's book For All Things a Season? It's an ebook, so you can read it online or print it out if you want. It has a whole section in there about how to do this with your kid. Actually anybody. He calls it Reflect, Relate, Regulate. And it can help while the kid is tantruming or hitting or whatever. It helps you to really hear him, so that he doesn't need to throw something at you anymore. Which, let's face it, is way better. ;) Because you're right. You do not have to just "take it" when someone is hurting you. That is as unhealthy of a message for you as it is for him.

I havent heard of that book but I"m off to look it up right now! Thanks! I'm always looking for more information on treating and helping my son's emotional dysregulation. He will be dealing with this for the rest of his life (because of his birth mom's choices) and I need to give him all the tools to help him :)
Thanks so much for all the great support :)

**Money is beyond tight this week so I'm not sure if I'll be able to take the teleparenting class but thank you both for the invite...I am trying to soak up as much of this as possible.....this is basically my only source of support and treatment......we've been encouraged by social workers to get noah behavioral therapy but they dont understand that it WONT work because he is unable to regulate himself so consequences just make things worse....I'm preachin to the choir here...:lol

[Rebecca]

You may want to check out the book Playful Parenting. It is actually our featured resource this month (see my homepage and scroll to the bottom) and you can click on it to purchase it through my amazon store. Or check it out at a library. It has lots of ways to playfully approach exactly what you are referring to. Many children have difficulty with the feelings thing. Resources like that may help give you additional ways of learning to handle those situations.

[dolphins]

Not trying to stalk either – it’s been a very long 16-months and I’m just very hungry for answers and feel like a sponge right now (which probably makes me look needy – sorry)

SOOOO – what are the other possibilities to the “rethinking the game plan” (charts)? Our CASA helped get this idea on a roll and yes, it appeared to work and then not work as the charts were developed. I figured and will admit, I assumed because of "ODD issues" they really didn't seem to work. School is designed to be a contained “behavioral intervention program” classroom and they use the “X” amount of behavior cards at the end of the day system. It seems we talk about the "who-hoo" stickers, etc and then that praise I was trying to let in on was a reason - OR rather yet, let me quote self, "I praise and there seems to be only sabotaging the good praises coming from the child". So, I'm gamed!

Could that so called sabotaging I place into with my words actually be fear showing from being praised? Well, as I wrote that I bluntly replied to myself, "well,duh - - and 'yah" Poor thing, most likely when got praises before had a negative feedbacks follow shortly after. WOW!

[greenbeanbanshee]

Right! It is all starting to make sense for you. I am so proud of you!! :clap

(And no, you are NOT needy. No more than I am anyway. You are just right the way your are.)

~Bethany